Spirit led vs Leader led Meetings

1 Corinthians 14 describes a meeting of the whole church as it was meant to be.

If one reads the chapter objectively and with an open heart the difference between the way Church meetings happen in most Churches today and the way Paul instructed the Corinthians to do their meetings is quite striking.

Let’s look at some of those differences…

Leaving aside the Pentecostal belief that there are two kinds of tongues and that one is okay to practice publicly while the other is not (a belief that I think is in error though I am for sure open to considering otherwise if any of my Pentecostal brethren are willing to sit down with me in person and set out their best case reasoning for why what they believe is biblical…if indeed it is) it is clear from Paul’s instructions that Church meetings are to be open and participatory in nature.

What I mean is that the gifts of the Spirit are to be openly exercised by members of the Body (subject to  certain restrictions) who are to participate in the meeting through such gifts.

1 Corinthians 14:26

When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation

This is way different from the typical Church meeting of today when only a select few are given permission to practice any kind of gift within meetings of the Church.

Today, musicians may practice a gift of inspirational worship in musical form followed by a Pastor exercising a gift to teach, followed by the musicians again at which time the service may end.  The particular order of these gifts being exercised may change somewhat from Church to Church but across a wide spectrum of Churches in different denominations only a select few gifts are allowed to operate during a typical Church meeting.

Paul describes a meeting where each one is allowed to express their gift as they are led by the Spirit to do so.  One person might be inspired to speak in tongues and may do so (subject only to there being an interpreter of that tongue present who exercises their gift to interpret afterwards).  Another may receive a prophetic revelation from God and will speak it out.  Still another member of the Body may have a song on their heart and may initiate to sing it as the rest of the members join in.  Someone gifted to teach might want to do a bit of teaching and bring some instruction to others.

But there is no predetermined order or manner in which one’s may exercise their gifts.  Nor are only a select few given the privilege of exercising a gift before the many as happens today.

Every single member of the Body is free to express their gifts as the Spirit within inspires them for the edification and encouragement of all.

No where in this chapter or anywhere in the New Testament for that matter is there the slightest hint of support for the current practice or Church tradition of bringing something before leaders in the Church for approval before being allowed to speak it out publicly.

Such a Church tradition may satisfy the natural inclination of many present day Church leaders to exercise some measure of control over their Church meetings but it does not promote God’s interests for how freely the gifts are to operate within the Body.

This does not mean that our meetings are to allow for anything to be shared by anyone without any kind of correction being brought to bear upon ungodly teaching or otherwise.

But any such correction or reproof is to happen after the fact of a gift being exercised and not before.  Church leaders are not to stifle the free expression of spiritual gifts.   Yes, they are to exercise oversight and otherwise look out for the best interests of the flock, perhaps to even step in when someone is sharing something that is ungodly in nature but they are not to act as gatekeepers for what is shared.

1 Corinthians 14:29

Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment.

While the above verse deals specifically with the gift of prophesy I believe the principal applies to the operation of all the gifts within Church meetings.  The others, those who are not expressing the spiritual gift in question at the time it is exercised, are to pass judgment on the gift and what is being expressed.

In other words if someone expresses something that is inappropriate or ungodly in nature the others are to speak up and say something to bring correction or reproof into the meeting.

If you stop and think about it this promotes maturity in the Body in a way that our present day practice of using leaders as gatekeepers of what is shared does not.   All have a responsibility to pass judgment.  All must be willing to exercise this responsibility.  Leaders are not immune from judgment being passed on what they share for they too can end up erring or going astray.

Each member of the Body is thus given responsibility for the health of the whole and must carefully listen and evaluate as to whether this or that gifted individual is expressing things in line with that may be on God’s heart.  There are no spectators in the meeting being described by Paul. Each member is to be a participatory member either by being willing to allow God to express Himself through them to those assembled and/or by evaluating what is shared and either supporting it and embracing it or correcting or reproving it for being erroneous and not reflective of God’s heart.

Another thing to note in the meeting being described by Paul is that the Holy Spirit leads the meeting through the individual members He choses to operate through at any given moment in time.   The meeting is not to be a gathering where recognized leaders lead the meeting and set the pace or content of what happens.

It is interesting to note that no Pastoral gift or teaching gift attached to being a Pastor is even mentioned anywhere in 1 Corinthians 14.  While this does not mean that leaders did not operate during such meetings to exercise their gift or calling it does strongly imply that the present day elevation of the Pastoral gift or a teaching gift associated with a particular Pastor above all the other gifts was not the practice during the New Testament.

Many gifts were in operation during the meetings of the New Testament Church unlike today when only a select few operate.

One of the problems with trying to implement what Paul describe, today, is that so many have become so accustomed to being spectators that it takes some doing to get them to start exercising their gifts publicly.  Generally speaking we all need the freedom to practice our gifts and even make mistakes in their expression before we learn to exercise our gifts in a godly and responsible manner for the good of the whole.  Because such freedom is not present in most Churches the environment that baby Christians need to enable them to exercise their gifts in a mature and seasoned manner is not present leading to many gifts lying dormant within the Body today.

The Church needs to change it’s practice to line up with what Paul described.

I believe our Church meetings would be exciting and tremendously fulfilling for every member of the Body if we all were encouraged to come to meetings and exercise our spiritual gifts freely during any part of the meeting.  Where we could experience the Presence of God through His Spirit as He expresses Himself through the spiritual gifts present.  Where each meeting would be different and unique and where God would be free to minister to the Body or individual members of it in whatever way He might want to at any time during a meeting.

Paul is not advocating chaos.  Rather he is advocating freedom of expression for every member of the Body whom God might want to express Himself through (subject to some very limited restrictions on that expression) in an orderly manner.  One at a time.

If you are living in the San Diego area and wish to join me in seeing the kind of meeting Paul describes happen today please comment on this article through the comment form below and let me know.

Carlos

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12 Comments on “Spirit led vs Leader led Meetings”


  1. This is the very best and clearest breakdown of 1Cor14v26 that I have read for a long long time.
    You cover all the bases and cover them well.

    I have long believed this and have walked in it since the 70s when I first (partially) encountered it in a charismatic fellowship.
    (I would perhaps discuss with you what you meant regarding two types of tongues)

    I would also add something which reinforces your post.
    1Cor11v3. But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of every woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God.
    v4. Every man praying or prophesying having his head covered dishonours his head.

    If I can only pray or prophesy under the covering (permission) of a pastor, I have placed that pastor above my head. I have therefore displaced Christ as my head. Christ is thus dishonoured.

    Most churches actually teach and practice a covering doctrine which is an insult to Christ. Having another man above my head is idolatry, and I will not permit it for myself. This is why I avoid church these days. I meet with a few brothers and sisters who all listen and give freely what they discern in the spirit. We all consider what is given and all grow through it. We submit one to the other in all humility.

    The charismatic fellowship where I started eventually became more and more controlling because it took on a strong doctrine of covering, ie. having everyone with authority upon their heads- hierarchical etc. The freedom totally dried up and it transformed from open body ministry into being led from the front.

    On the journey to that place, I was denounced and thrown out as rebellious. Bless em Lord!

    • Carlos Says:

      I am sorry to hear of what you experienced in your former fellowship Francis (I don’t know what else to call you…I hope that is okay). Of course I do not know all the details but if your heart was in the right place before the Lord and you were denounced as rebellious know that He was denounced first and that you stand in the honored place of having suffered for having stood for Jesus and His ways as best you understood them to be.

      I do not know why so-called Christians can sometimes act with such cruelty and wickedness as they sometimes do but I suppose I need only look into my own heart to see how that is possible. I too have said things and done things in my life that dishonored God. Mostly I was ignorant but sometimes on purpose. Thank God that there is forgiveness for us all and that we can look to God to help us move forward, past the hurt, and give us grace to love those who should have loved us but did not.

      I wish for you better things in Christ Francis and perhaps, given that you seem to be against a proper practice of head coverings (please correct me if I am wrong) on women and not on men, that you will not allow the abuse you suffered under a covering doctrine that does not appear to have been of God, to keep you from experiencing the fullness of the good that the Lord meant through Paul’s instructions on head coverings.

      If you want to discuss anything with me, at any time Francis, please feel free to let me know by way of a comment here and we can either discuss more here or I can give you my personal email and we can communicate that way.

      Thanks for sharing part of your heart with us all.

      Carlos

    • Carlos Says:

      Oh…I neglected to address something you brought up Francis. The two types of tongues.

      I really do not understand it very well but from what I know there are brethren, in Pentecostal circles mostly I think, who believe that it is okay for them to speak in tongues publicly at meetings in violation of what it says in 1 Cor 14 because they see their being two different kinds of tongues. One is a personal prayer language between them and God and the other is the more usual tongues that we associate with speaking in an unknown tongue. I believe they think it’s okay to speak in their personal prayer language publicly. That is why they so freely engage in tongues speaking at public meetings despite what 1 Cor 14 says (a tongues speaking that they consider to be more the speaking in an unknown tongue vs speaking in a personal prayer language that is not known).

      If I am not mistaken that is where they get the idea of two types of tongues. I don’t see any Scriptural support for such a view but that is my understanding of it. Again I do not know much about their beliefs but that is what I have been able to gather from very limited conversations I have had with some Pentecostals.

      That there is a personal aspect of tongues is quite clear Scripturally. I mean in the sense that one can use it personally to speak to God and express things to Him even if one does not know what they are saying (unless they also have the gift of interpretation). But, to say that one’s personal use of tongues is one kind of tongue while that talked of in 1 Cor 14 (whose public expression is forbidden without an interpreter) is another, is stretching things behond what is written I think. It comes across as an attempt to let whoever speaks in tongues do what they might wish to do…namely speak without restriction, as another of the many justifications that are used these days to discount and negate the clear instructions that are written.

      Carlos


  2. Hi Carlos
    Thanks for passing through my blog.
    You comment on my blog caused me to come and check you out, and I read this post without realising I had read it last October. (I have sieve for a memory). I was really enjoying it and wanted to comment as such, and then came across my own previous comment at the bottom. What an idiot!

    However I don’t think I read your reply ref tongues. So here are my thoughts. Sorry its a bit long winded.

    I am gifted with many, many types of tongue through the Holy Spirit, and I use tongues lots.

    I don’t really hold with the view that there are two “types” of tongue, however there may be very different applications of tongues.

    Lets look at the general activity in a meeting NOT specifically the using of tongues.
    1) There is the time when ONE person may address the whole body. This is effectively speaking downward and outward, rather than upward, if that makes sense.
    a) This may be teaching from the word.
    b) This may be a spoken prophecy
    c) This may be a vision
    d) This may be an unknown tongue.
    e) Interpretation.

    a) and b) are usually individual, but not necessarily so.
    c)and d) frequently require the assistance of another (e).
    We understand that tongues, addressed to the body, need interpreting. This may be via the speaker himself, or another in the midst.
    The same is frequently true for visions. I may have an strange vision which means little to me, I nevertheless describe it, and someone else declares, “hallelujah, now I understand what God has been speaking to me” and then proceeds to explain my vision to the assembly. This parallels tongues and interpretation.

    2) There is a time when one man prays or gives thanks upwards to God, and the others spontaneously give amen to it. This is important. 1Cor14v16………..how shall he that is unlearned say amen at your giving of thanks if he doesn’t understand it.
    This clearly shows that representative prayer should be in English, (God’s language LOL) and not tongues, otherwise it excludes anyone else from participating

    3) There are times when the congregation collectively all sing a well known song. They all sing in unison the same words in English. They sing upwards to God.

    4)There are times when each and every one SINGLY prays or sings in joy and thankful proclamation, upwards to God, just as the Spirit moves. There is little need for anyone to amen any of these cries because all are looking up to God with radiant faces and are probably lost to the others in the assembly at that moment. I have been in many such meetings where the spirit moves and the assembly starts to cry out with individual voices rather than one collective voice. This is upward to God, and he hears every voice singly despite the cacophony!

    5) There are times in the above (4) times when people cry out in tongues as well as English. In the same way, their voices are being directed to God alone, and need no interpreter because God is the author of all languages.

    To me, the problem has nothing to do with different kinds of tongue. It is simply down to who you are addressing, and to common courtesy. The same principle applies whether in tongues or in English (or Spanish, or Swahili)

    With a name like Carlos, it is probably that you might speak Spanish. If we meet and you start speaking to me in Spanish, then it would be discourteous, because you know I am an ignorant Englishman. It would also be discourteous in my presence for you to speak to your fellow traveling companions in Spanish (unless they know no English), because it would clearly exclude me from participation.
    The same is true in Church, if someone speaks a word to the whole body, or to God on behalf of the whole body, THEN IT MUST BE UNDERSTOOD BY ALL THOSE PRESENT, otherwise it is rude, immature and exclusive, causing the body to disfunction.
    However words SPOKEN in the assembly, that are meant for God alone and require no understanding by another, matter not about interpretation, anymore than when I personally cry out to God in the midst of the body. I don’t care whether anyone hears or comprehends me or amens me.

    I can understand why many people try to make laws about tongues in church. There is so much immaturity, even from major church leaders. I have seen them standing at the front with a microphone using it to speak tongues into. This is amazingly crass, arrogant, and utterly pointless. Perhaps they think that God will hear them better if their tongues are amplified?
    Sadly such loud tongues activity crushes the function of the rest of the body.

    I am not saying that chaotic language activity has to be how a church SHOULD function, however, exuberant joy should not be crushed by application of Paul’s words as LAW. It isn’t meant like that. I believe Paul’s words, put common wisdom behind the use of tongues and is totally sensible if the church is to work cohesively together, feeding one another via all the gifts amongst all the members.
    Yet what counts more than anything, is whether the body is edified, and is God glorified. I have been in many meetings where tongues of prayer and praise are used collectively with no interpretation simply because they are an act of collective worship. In the midst of the tongues I can clearly hear many people crying out in adoration, in plain English. Is God somehow categorising the words in English as worthy, and those in unknown tongues as sin?
    I don’t think so!
    The collective use of upward tongues can bring a major release of the Spirit as everyones heart is opened. Tongues edifies the believer, and when used in unison can equally edify the body.

    I believe Paul is addressing a small item, and it should not be blown up into the major event, as if it is the key to proper church function. It is a simple issue, along with all the other points he addresses in 1Cor14, of encouraging everyone to participate in the ekklesia together

    Throughout church history, the misuse of 1Cor14 has actually been the very thing used by the church to completely forbid tongues. Yet Paul makes it very clear that we should NOT FORBID to speak in tongues.
    For generations the anti-tongue police have succeeded in making the saints far too frightened to use tongues at all!

    • Carlos Says:

      Hi Francis. Good to see you again!

      You bring up an interesting point about tongues that I have never heard of before. Namely that there are tongues meant to be spoken to God directly and that there are tongues that are meant to be spoken to the congregation (if I understand you correctly). That Paul’s admonition to not speak in tongues if there is no interpreter only applies to those tongues that are being spoken to the congregation as opposed to God.

      I’ll have to think about what you said Francis and pray over it but initially I would have to say that what Paul says applies to all tongues. Whether spoken to God or to man.

      At least that is how it reads.

      The problem in the Christian world at large is that we all embellish what is written with so much from our personal experience that we set aside the plain meaning of what is actually said.

      I too have been in meetings where tongues are spoken without interpretation and in a cacophony of sound. Undulating between a crescendo of worship and a more quiet and soft speaking by only a few. Did such cause me to cry out “Barbarians!” one and all? Of course not. But that’s because I know what is happening in such meetings and have experienced them before.

      If I did not know about tongues at all and had never heard them and had never seen any Christians anywhere speak in them I would have likely concluded that these people were absolutely nuts if not outrightly demonic. That fits the description of what Paul is saying Francis respecting the likely reaction of the ungifted (in tongues) who comes into the assembly.

      It matters little, in my reading of what is said, whether the tongues being spoken are being spoken to God or to the congregation. Any tongues speaking at all will seem like gibberish and nutty to anyone in the assembly who is not gifted in tongues, does not know what is going on, and does not understand them.

      Furthermore, again perfectly in line with what Paul said, if someone cannot understand the tongue being spoken and has no idea what is being said…such tongues speaking will not edify the person that is hearing them spoken (though the sound may be pleasant enough). That is why he says that he would rather speak just a few words in an intelligible language than 10,000 words in tongues. Because 10 words spoken so as to be understood are more likely to edify others (depending on what is said of course) than 10,000 words of gibberish to those who do not understand what is being said.

      I could go into this more Francis but for now…all my time and energy is focused on completing a complete rewrite of what I wrote about head coverings.

      Overall, the amount of deception, hardness of heart, and hypocrisy in the church at large astounds me. It absolutely astounds me.

      Seemingly sincere Christians continue to embrace conjecture, to assume things that are not true, to adhere to questionable and wholly unsupported theories about why something doesn’t apply to today’s culture…while completely ignoring what is plainly written.

      We all need to get back to the plain meaning of what is written and submit ourselves to God through the Word. We don’t need more teaching, sermons, programs, and ministries. We need to repent before a God who has never stopped calling us to be all the Body that he has instructed us to be through the Word. It’s all there in black and white for any who have ears to hear and eyes to see.

      Carlos


  3. Carlos
    Yes your first paragraph above sums up the baseline for the rest of my commentary, and everything needs to be considered in that context. If such an idea is alien to you, then what I went on to say will make no sense either.

    Your following comments seem to indicate that you have never addressed God in tongues. Am I right?
    I presume you speak in tongues?

    Frank

    • Carlos Says:

      Hi Frank,

      I once almost started speaking in tongues when God got a hold of me in a powerful way in the privacy of my apartment but other than a few gutteral type of sounds…it did not flow like I imagine tongues do.

      I don’t subscribe to the belief that one needs to start saying gibberish to “loosen” the tongue and that type of thing. Some once tried to get me to start mouthing gibberish in order to losen my tongue…utter nonsense if you ask me. Biblically speaking…you either start speaking in tongues as one might another known tongue or you don’t.

      Lots of seemingly sincere Christians speak in “tongues” that are actually just nonsense gibberish. Very few of the tongues that I have heard in my life have been of the kind that biblical tongues were. A known language that was unknown to the one speaking. Most have been of the undulating, repeating gibberish kind that means nothing and for which no interpretation is possible. At least no interpretation with respect to it being a known language that someone can interpret.

      I’ve also seen a tongues speaker speak volumes in tongues, relatively speaking, with an “interpreter” coming along and interpreting the supposed tongues in a single sentence. While it is certainly possible to have an interpretation of a known language be shorter than the original spoken word…an interpretation that is 1/20th of the length of the original or less is rather far fetched as being a true interpretation of what was really said (assuming the original tongue meant anything at all).

      Too many modern day tongues speakers, and I am not saying that you are this way Francis, rely too much on their experience as the ultimate guide to what is true about tongues. They do not judge their experience by the Word. They judge the Word or rather interpret it through their experience which is not a very good or accurate way to interpret the Bible.

      Their tongues speaking makes them feel great and so they look for some way to justify their experience in the Word. Instead of letting the Word say what it says without apology regardless of what it says about their experience.

      The Bible says what it says regardless of what our experience says to us otherwise (or seemingly so).

      Just some random thoughts I wanted to throw out about tongues Francis. Not aimed at you in particular.

      Carlos


  4. Carlos
    Please do not think what I may say is anyway meant to be offensive.
    Contentious yes, in the sense that we BOTH passionately contend for what we believe is the truth. Iron sharpens iron.
    I admire what you have written so far although I may not agree with it all.

    Now, to hit some points which I believe affect your handling of scripture, (which is actually very astute). You decry human experience and elevate the Word of God. Absolutely right! However our experience sometimes totally colours our comprehension of what the word says for good or for bad. This applies to both of us!

    I liken this to a theorist swimming teacher, shouting at someone in the water. The teacher know all the books, all the various strokes, and all about the specific gravity of water vs the human body. Yet even the youngest child who doggy paddles can, from his simple experience, contradict the great teacher.

    It seems to me, that you are looking at a gift of the spirit, and dictating how it should be used when it is largely outside your comprehension.

    You said,
    “Biblically speaking…you either start speaking in tongues as one might another known tongue or you don’t.”

    This is patently not true, nor biblical!

    I will explain this shortly, but first lets look at something Jesus said, which applies to all gifts.
    “Unless you come as a little child, you will never see the kingdom of heaven”
    The reason for this statement is that there is a major battle going on within each of us. It is a Tree of Life vs Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil battle.
    It is a battle between our spirit man and our flesh man.
    We always hear God’s voice via our spirit man, yet our flesh man is invariably opposed to hearing God’s voice, and battles against the sound of it.
    The older we get, the stronger our flesh man becomes in its independent and accumulated Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.
    In the meantime, the child is largely an unpainted canvas, with little accumulated Tree of Knowledge. This is why they can see the kingdom of heaven so easily, they have no accumulated denial to draw on.

    My son is illustrative of this. When he was three and half years old he spontaneously came to us with a prophetic word. It was about buying a house, which we had just disappointingly lost to someone else, and he gave a deadline of “before we go on holiday” which was over three months ahead.
    We asked the Lord and He confirmed it in our spirit. Apart from claiming it in prayer, it was totally out of our control. Three months later, and two hours before we left the house to drive to the ferry, the agent suddenly phoned to say the buyers had failed to raise the cash and the house was back on the market, that is if we were still interested. We immediately went and signed the deal.

    My son had no idea of the significance of his word at the time, and indeed now nearly 30 years later he has no remembrance of it. He just saw and heard something in the spirit and told it like it is. Indeed his words speak volumes, “Jesus says we are going to have that house and have it before we go on holiday”!

    Similarly, my friend recently was secretly praying about traveling to Scotland in order to investigate the roots of the Hebridean revival of 1949. With no prior knowledge his 5 year old son came up to him and said, “Jesus says you have got to go up to the country on the top of England, and its flag is like this.” He had drawn the Scottish Saltire (the diagonal cross on blue flag).

    If we would only recognise that our personal Tree of Knowledge opposes the Tree of Life, which is of course the Spirit of Jesus, we would be better able to deal with the things of the spirit!

    So back to your assertion
    “you either start speaking in tongues as one might another known tongue or you don’t.”

    No child starts speaking full bore or with full understanding. They have a tendency to repetitive gibberish, but that doesn’t stop them, we also should be like a little child (with tongues) when speaking to our Father.

    To believe that speaking in tongues comes instantly, and with perfection, flies in the face of what the majority of tongue speaker’s experience, and the evidence of any childhood, and the evidence of the bible.
    I suspect you will immediately think of Pentecost to refute this. However if you look at the book of Acts, you will not find that they suddenly spoke complete conversations. It just says they heard them speak in their own languages……..the wonderful works of God.
    They were also accused of drunkenness which implies that what was heard was said amongst much drunken staggering and laughter under the outpouring of the Joy of the Spirit.
    This could mean anything, but it does not imply conversation or long prophetic words in tongues. The falling of the spirit was an indoors private prayer meeting which like many a drunken party spilled out onto the street!
    It also does not say that the tongue speakers understood their words NOR THAT IT WAS INTERPRETED! They obviously had not read 1 Cor14!
    They were just exuberantly joyful and it exploded all around them.

    Most people who either fail to progress or halt altogether in tongues do so because they are not approaching it like a child. Their mind has got in the way and they are unwilling to sound like a fool, or like a child.
    Maybe it is time for you let go of the failures of the past, and let go of the, (dare I say it) judgment of immature church experiences.
    This is between you and God. Tongues is a gift which God gave for the edification of the believer. Do you think that he would refuse it to some who he perhaps thinks should not be edified?

    Every blessing
    Frank

    • Carlos Says:

      Hi Frank. I very much appreciate your frankness. Truly I do. I speak the way you spoke to me, to others. And that’s a good thing when it’s called for.

      I am a big believer in sticking to what is written. To the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

      In thinking about what I said I have to admit that there is nothing written that says that tongues begins instantly. So I must by that conclude that such is simply my personal opinion. Perhaps biblical plausible but certainly not absolutely true per se.

      I am therefore open to thinking differently.

      As we both must be to what the Lord may want to say through others into our lives.

      I wish I had more time to focus on this issue Frank but I just don’t and feel a need to finish off the head covering issue first. I hope you don’t mind.

      I will for sure come back to discuss tongues more with you I think when I get around to ironing the issue of tongues out. Though to be sure there are other issues that seem more pressing for the formation of a proper and God honoring Body (like allowing the free expression of spiritual gifts).

      Which is my immediate goal at this point in my life. To be instrumental in having a Body form of the kind that the Lord wants. I am presently discussing my involvement with one local church who was uncomfortable with my involvement at first, then got comfortable at the prospect of it, and now is uncomfortable again.

      Not because I am sinning in some way but rather because I am not your typical sheep that sits and watches and listens and then comes back again the next Sunday to do the same thing all over again. I look to and listen to God. And He would have things be different with respect to how the Body functions. I want what He wants. It is a sad state of affairs in the North American church when those who want such are ostracized, shunned, and otherwise poo pooed or looked upon with suspicion for wanting to implement what the Lord says to do.

      Most American churches do not readily embrace what God wants I think. They would rather continue to embrace the status quo even though the Bible is crystal clear in saying that we ought to be doing things a different way.

      Anyway…I’ll leave it at that.

      Blessing to you Frank. Thanks for your input!

      Carlos


      • Keep on keeping on my brother.
        You are dead right in wanting a properly functioning body, and that means 1Cor14v26!!!!

        I also know what you mean by those who want you in the midst, and then don’t. You are obviously a very threatening believer to have around a complacent body.

        Frank

        • Carlos Says:

          Thanks for your encouragement Frank! I appreciate it. Hard enough to find it in the visible and existing church which is a real shame.

          I mean here I am wanting only that which the Lord wants for the Body to be and what do I find? Encouragement? Support (spiritual and emotional)? Understanding? Compassion?

          Nope. I find on the whole nothing but unrighteous and wrongful judgment of my motives, false assumptions made about me, misunderstanding, discouragement to continue pursuing God’s best for the Body, and you name it.

          Just weird.

          I mean the Body is supposed to be about Him and glorifying Him. Not what it generally is today.

          It’s like Jesus in me is still persecuted by the very Body that is supposed to be His.

          That should not be.

          Carlos

  5. Carlos Says:

    Hey Frank,

    If you are willing I would very much appreciate your critique of what I have so far in my head covering “paper”.

    It can be seen (at least as much as I have uploaded and posted) at https://hisbody.wordpress.com/head-coverings

    If any other Christian reading this wants to read it and comment on it please do.

    Thanks.

    Carlos


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